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Darwin was Wrong

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26 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:12 am

jaytee

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bullfrog wrote:Jaytee, those who know me know that I dig a little taste of rum every night as I have dug tonight. I will respond to this manana when I'm sober. By the way, did I tell you that we were blessed with two more kittens tonight? God just dropped them on our doorstep as he knew that they could crash here with food, water and love.

What could be cooler than that?

What a world....

Bullfrog.

I think I know you pretty well. That is if you are who I think you are. If you are Moon aka Ditch, then I know you from other boards. If not, then please disregard. And Mickey, I didn't realize I posted the same article.

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27 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:10 am

Mikey

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Okay, back to stalactites/stalagmites... Remember boys and girls that stalactites hold "tite" to the ceiling and stalagmites "mite" reach the ceiling.... ex[giggle]

Bullfrog: I like you was taught that stalactites and stalagmites took millions of years to form. I visited the Carlsbad Caverns as a kid and recall the ranger saying the same thing...."millions and millions of years"....

However, unlike some formations that are alleged to be millions of years old, such as the Grand Canyon, and have no witnesses to attest as to how they were formed or as to their age, there are witnesses today with photographic evidence showing that stalactites and stalagmites are formed rather quickly.

While researching my response to you I came across an article mentioning the Carlsbad Caves and it caused me to chuckle. The article mentioned a story about Jerry Trout, a cave specialist with the Arizona Forest Service. Trout has been a high-school teacher and a geologist. Jerry Trout writes, “What geologists used to believe was fact, in terms of dating a cave, now is speculation.” Trout is then quoted as saying:
“From 1924 to 1988, there was a visitor’s sign above the entrance to Carlsbad Caverns that said Carlsbad was at least 260 million years old. In 1988 the sign was changed to read 7–10 million years old. Then, for a little while, the sign read that it was 2 million years old. Now the sign is gone.”

Trout says that through photo-monitoring, he has watched a stalactite grow several inches in a matter of days.

In another article written by young earth creationist Dr Emil Silvestru, geologist/karstologist, a world authority on the geology of caves who has published 41 scientific papers:
Caves for all seasons
Silvestru wrote: “Now, let’s consider one of the tallest stalagmites in the world, in the cave Armand (France)—shown above. At 3 mm per year it would have reached its present 38 m in 12,700 years.1 Clearly, this contradicts the ages of hundreds of thousands of years obtained from radiometric dating! But, on the surface, it would appear to be too old for the Flood.
However, as I looked closely at this stalagmite, I realized that its growth must have been even faster in the past, because the water falls over 90 m (300 ft) from the roof to the tip of the stalagmite. This drop, plus the powerful splash at the end, would make it lose CO2 faster. Furthermore, the climate in the area used to be much wetter about a millennium ago, which would have accelerated growth even more.”


The young earth creationist writer in one of the articles noted he has received e-mails from numerous people from around the world saying that cavern tour guides no longer talk about the long age it took to form the stalagtites. Out of curiosity I looked up stalagtites on Wikipedia. True, Wikipedia is not necessarilly to be trusted but none the less it described how stalactites are formed but suprisingly there was no mention as to how long it takes for them to form....

Teepee Fountain

Kathleen's Marvellous Mysteries

Instant stalagmites

Petrified waterwheel

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28 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:38 am

Mikey

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If Cain and Abel were the first two sons of Adam and Eve, who was Cain worried about killing him in this verse?

We know Adam lived to the ripe old age of 970 and he and Eve had other sons and daughter.....probably a LOT of other sons and daughers... The Bible as you note doesn't go into specific detail and doesn't mention other children being born between these two brothers. However, the brothers were men when Abel was killed but we don't know how old they were. In any event, Cain was afraid of his own brothers, sisters, nephews, and nieces, who were already born and would be capable of seeking revenge.

One number cruncher estimated that there would have been roughly 35,000 people on earth some 200 years after the creation...

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29 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:28 am

bullfrog

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Yes Jaytee, when I first began to post I was very naive and used my club name which is too close to my real identity. I didn't realize how nasty people on the internet can get so I changed it to Moon. Also, a woman was going back and responding to all of my posts even though some of the threads were long dead. I then changed my name to Moon after a friend in the club who was killed.

Well I truly have to say that I have learned a lot here. I took the reef growth at face value and never questioned it nor the time it took for stalactites to grow. Mainly because an old earth did not conflict with the Bible to me, I could accept that the earth and the universe was very old and still have my faith in God.

I'm glad you cleared up the Cain and Abel thing Mike. It would make perfect sense that his own relatives would want revenge. Sin had already entered the world earlier in Genesis so the garden wasn't paradise anymore, it makes sense that people would scatter over time.


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30 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:50 am

Mikey

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Jaytee: If I recall correctly when Ken Ham came to America from Australia he was with CMI and he then started his own Answers in Genesis. CMI owns Creation Magazine and because Ken wrote many of their articles they share many of the same articles on their websites. There has since been a clean break with each publishing separate creation articles. The intitial separation but a bit nasty but they have since kissed and made up....

Bullfrog: One of the speakers at the creation seminar spoke briefly on genetics and explained how gene mutations can be transfered to the next generation. This discussion related to all the intermarriage of brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews, nieces etc. that obviously was occurring with Adam/Eve's extended family. There would have been very few mutations initially but as time increased the mutations would also increase. Even Abraham married his half sister. By the time Moses came along is when God told them they could not marry close relatives. As I recall he didn't say why but I am assuming it is because the gene pool by that time was getting corrupted.

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31 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:45 am

jaytee

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Looking around at sites today and found this.


... Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?… But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?… Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory. (Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, pp. 172, 280)

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32 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:44 am

Mikey

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Evolutionary thought assumes there is no Divine creator and in fact there are many quotes from evolutionists that prove this point. They believe there is nature (materialism) and only nature. Time seems to be their God. Given enough time they believe undirected, random processes lead to the evolution of all life.

And to think I thought time was the enemy. Time allows for harmful mutations to be encoded in our DNA and passed on through our children, cancers, heart disease etc. Everything about me...including me....seems to break down after time....unless some intelligent being intervenes to stop the decay.... Examples include plastic surgeons, house painters, auto mechanics etc.....

As one evolutionist said, "Evolution is a theory universally accepted not because it can be proven by logically coherent evidence to be true, but because the only alternative, special creation, is clearly incredible."

Each year more and more scientists come to God because they finally allow the evidence to lead them to the truth.

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33 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:25 am

bullfrog

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Life appeared in sporadic bursts after the dinosaurs, mammals thrived. Were they here with the dinosaurs? There is evidence that a large meteor struck the Yucatan and tektites are scattered all over the earth as well as a fine layer of iridium. Do you believe this is what wiped out the dinosaurs?


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34 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:16 pm

Mikey

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I believe God created all the life during the 6 days of creation as contained in His Word the Bible. Yes, I believe that mammals were here, along with the dinosaurs.....and along with man.

The book of Job is believed to be the most ancient book in the Bible. Remember that when the various writers, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, wrote the various books the modern word for dinosaurs did not exist. They would have referred to them as dragons and dragons are mentioned in the Bible. In addition, what many creationists, and me, believe to be living dinosaurs are mentioned in Job, Behemoth and Leviathan. Leviathan is described quite well and would appear to be the fire breathing dragon that the ancient Chinese record in their drawings.

Read about Behemoth in Job 40 starting at verse 15.
Read about Leviathan in Job 41 and tell me what creature you think it is...

It takes special circumstances for fossils to exist. In a nutshell, the animal must be buried quickly under mud in order for it to be preserved. Evidence of a world-wide flood are all over the earth. Massive as well as isolated burial sites have been found. Animals would have been buried according to their particular habitat.

I believe the dinosaurs did not adapt well after the flood. The earth changed massively following the flood. Perhaps all the tremendous volcanic activity that occurred following the flood is what caused the ice age and these creatures couldn't survive. I will have to do more research of creationist material in this area but that is what comes to mind.

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35 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:17 pm

jaytee

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I believe that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. Noah placed them on the ark just as he did with the other animals. Some survived after their release but I don't know how long. Could be that their food supply was gone or maybe hunted for meat, I can't say for sure. I also believe that the earth has been hit by meteors. The evidence is here. But since I don't believe in the time table offered by evolutionist, I can't say when these things happened. For me the big question is this; was the meteor at Yucatan a planet killer? I ask the question because evolutions have already come to a conclusion about their beliefs so now they are trying to find evidence that fits. IMO the evidence is here with the flood but scientist want to deny that theory. Another thing we may want to consider is that more of the evolutionary scientist are atheist. They don't want to acknowledge God for any reason. That is why they take a hard stance against Intelligent Design, it leads them back to God.

I found this about the Yucatan crater. Very interesting.

However there are several problems with this.[2]

The extinctions dates contradict the ages given to the craters.
Drill cores of the crater on the Yucatán peninsula do not support the idea that it is an impact crater.
Cores also say that the so-called crater was formed 300,000 years before the assumed mass extinction.[1](Keller 3753-3758}
If there was an impact at the Yucatán peninsula, we should expect to see a much higher effect on the Northern Hemisphere then Southern Hemisphere. But this isn't so.(Vivi Vajda et al 1700-1702)


http://creationwiki.org/Dinosaur_extinction

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36 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:00 pm

jaytee

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My son came in this Thanksgiving and gave me a book called "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. I'm only half way through but it's a very good book so far. Lee is a reporter and author that is an atheist. His wife turned to Christianity so he started researching the evolution vs. creation argument. He interviews people from the scientific community. Their answers are eye opening.

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37 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:44 pm

Mikey

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My analogy of the thought process in some of the science community is this: Picture a carton of 18 eggs. Each egg represents a division of the science community, e.g., biology, geology, genetics, paleontology etc. Each division (egg) is self contained but they are part of the whole (carton). They know a lot about their own discipline but not that much about the other disciplines. They have problems with evolutionary processes working in their area of discipline but they think that the other disciplines have the answer. Their adherence to their materialistic dogma prevents them from considering other alternatives such as a special creation.

The current book I am reading on genetics was written by a former staunch believer in evolution. He too was an atheist. He was a leader in his field and taught plant genetics at Cornell. It wasn't until a creationist scientist, who was well respected in his own right, confronted him and challenged him to consider creation and its clear signature of design & purpose in all things that he eventually came to a dramatic paradigm shift to realize that Darwinian evolution cannot, will not and has not worked. This professor then became a Bible believing Christian and is a co-founder of a creation ministry.

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38 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:54 pm

Stretch


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Has anyone seen a Lamanin protein molecule? The glue that holds all of your cells together looks very interesting.

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39 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:39 pm

Mikey

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cross shaped?

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40 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:20 pm

Stretch


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Or maybe a signature. I wonder if an omnipotent point of view would predict discussions like this, and our ability to one day look into our cellular structure. Also, I think what you said about the beaks of the birds adapting to their food supplies applies to different races of humanity. Hair type and skin seem to functional defenses against the elements for a place like Africa. Are Chinese smaller because of their diets or to save space in an overpopulated area?

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41 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:55 pm

Mikey

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Are Chinese smaller because of their diets or to save space in an overpopulated area?
That may change should Yao start behaving like a certain Tiger..... Basketball ex[wink1]

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42 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:05 pm

jw

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Mikey wrote:
Are Chinese smaller because of their diets or to save space in an overpopulated area?
That may change should Yao start behaving like a certain Tiger..... Basketball ex[wink1]
a

Now is that guy really that big or is it an optical illusion? [IMG]http:///oo


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43 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:41 pm

Mikey

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Yao Ming reportedly is 7'6"

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44 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:35 am

bullfrog

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Stretch wrote:Has anyone seen a Lamanin protein molecule? The glue that holds all of your cells together looks very interesting.

That's awesome, I have never heard about this molecule. It is interesting that it is what holds us together, in our very cells. Here it is.



I wrote a story a while back "God's Loving Club"

God's loving club is not some elite group of parishoners that have found favor in God's eye. No, God's loving club is the one that he has to get out every now and then and beat me over the head with it to get my attention because I am too stupid to understand what it is that he is trying to tell me. I'll look and see if it is on this hard drive and post it if it is.

But back to the molecule. If you believe as Stretch said, that perhaps God knew that someday we would be able to peer into our very cells, maybe he did leave this as a signature. It is either an odd coincidence or a confirmation to the believer and to me, it's a signature.

I once read a small booklet arguing evolution. A professor asked if everyone agreed with evolution and one student didn't. One by one the student picked apart the professor's "facts." The student used the atom of which all things are made, us included.

The nucleus of the atom is composed of protons and neutrons. Electrons orbit the nucleus. Protons are positively charged and electrons are negatively charged, so it stands to reason the their opposite charges attract them together just like the ends of a magnet. Opposite ends of a magnet grip where like ends repel each other.

But consider the nucleus. Protons are positve and neutrons are neutral. By the basic laws of physics the positively charged protons of the nucleus should repel each other and scatter into space. I can't remember the verse that the student quoted but it was "Jesus Christ is lord and by him all things are bound together."

Clues left in tiny places.


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45 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:19 pm

jw

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bullfrog wrote:
Stretch wrote:Has anyone seen a Lamanin protein molecule? The glue that holds all of your cells together looks very interesting.

That's awesome, I have never heard about this molecule. It is interesting that it is what holds us together, in our very cells. Here it is.



I wrote a story a while back "God's Loving Club"

God's loving club is not some elite group of parishoners that have found favor in God's eye. No, God's loving club is the one that he has to get out every now and then and beat me over the head with it to get my attention because I am too stupid to understand what it is that he is trying to tell me. I'll look and see if it is on this hard drive and post it if it is.

But back to the molecule. If you believe as Stretch said, that perhaps God knew that someday we would be able to peer into our very cells, maybe he did leave this as a signature. It is either an odd coincidence or a confirmation to the believer and to me, it's a signature.

I once read a small booklet arguing evolution. A professor asked if everyone agreed with evolution and one student didn't. One by one the student picked apart the professor's "facts." The student used the atom of which all things are made, us included.

The nucleus of the atom is composed of protons and neutrons. Electrons orbit the nucleus. Protons are positively charged and electrons are negatively charged, so it stands to reason the their opposite charges attract them together just like the ends of a magnet. Opposite ends of a magnet grip where like ends repel each other.

But consider the nucleus. Protons are positve and neutrons are neutral. By the basic laws of physics the positively charged protons of the nucleus should repel each other and scatter into space. I can't remember the verse that the student quoted but it was "Jesus Christ is lord and by him all things are bound together."

Clues left in tiny places.

That is so amazing to see and I hope we get to find out when we all get to Heaven what all the little clues were and if they really were clues. I just don't understand how people can choose the way of non-believing in God and choose the way of nothingness when we die when it seems so obvious to me that nothing like all this on earth could just be an accident.


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46 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:10 pm

Mikey

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No, God's loving club is the one that he has to get out every now and then and beat me over the head with it to get my attention ...
I wonder if Tiger may have recently experienced that club.....

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47 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:37 am

bullfrog

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You have to respect that woman, if more wives beat the crap out of cheating spouses it might change things.


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48 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:43 pm

This is a great thread! I read a book about ID from Demski with an intro by Behe but I can't remember the name of it. It went deeply into the human eye, and made perfect sense to me.

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49 Re: Darwin was Wrong on Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:06 am

Mikey

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Speaking of ID. The "science" community not only is dirty relative to the global warming hoax but they do their darnedest to silence any scientific discussion of Intelligent Design. The California Science Center is being sued for canceling a film promoting intelligent design.

http://www.discovery.org/a/14001

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